Third Memoirs of Cleopatra Chat Transcript

335lines of discussion for
Jun. 6, 2000


CONTINUED from Cleopatra chat 3, previous page

22:20 Morgana Flavius: Torrey, I read some essays about Livia a long time ago, here in AS. And I read R.Grove's "I Claudius", where Livia plays a major role. As far as I remember, Livia and Octavian were in love. But they never had children of their own. And they lived at least "apparently" as a happy couple till Octavian died. Livia died some years later.
22:20 Torrey Philemon: I wonder what it was like for her, raising the children of Antony and Cleopatra, confronting constantly the ghosts of the past.
22:20 Mara Durotriges: When I grow up, I'll have to wear shoes.  Not yet!
22:20 Torrey Philemon: Gee, someone actually LOVED Octavian? <-:
22:21 Torrey Philemon: (Mara, that's one of the nice things about online chat. You don't have to wear shoes and you don't even have to wear clothes!)
22:21 Torrey Philemon: Some other time, Morgana, tell me about I Claudius!
22:21 Mara Durotriges: The woman who wrote The Thornbirds, can't think of her name, wrote a bunch of Rome novels - maybe some of these folks show up in those
22:22 Torrey Philemon: (I have a theory about chats. About 1 hour and 20 minutes into them there is a need to start being silly. I hereby announce a silliness break)
22:22 Morgana Flavius: Hum... I guess I don't want to grow up either, Mara. Because if I do, I might be forced to lose Actium and surrender to Rome/corporate rules. Yuck!
22:22 Mara Durotriges: Begging your pardon, but I'd feel odd, typing nude
22:23 Torrey Philemon: Colleen McCullough. Yes she has a number of novels about Caesar. I was eyeing them at wondering if they  are worth reading.
22:23 Mara Durotriges: Agree, silliness slipping out here
22:23 Morgana Flavius: *duly taking my silliness break!* :-)
22:24 Mara Durotriges: the reviews I've seen were favorable.
22:25 Morgana Flavius: I read an article about Egypt after Octavian have annexed it to Rome. Poor Egypt...
22:25 Torrey Philemon: What happened to Egypt afterwards?
22:25 Mara Durotriges: I haven't read the I, Claudius group either.  Must get to it
22:26 Morgana Flavius: I've never read McCullough. But yes, all the reviews seem to be good.
22:27 Morgana Flavius: Egypt totally lost its identity. It was relegated to a subservient provincia, and Roman citizens had to get a special authorization to travel to Egypt. I guess Octavian feared that another Antony could try to fight him from Egypt again...
22:27 Torrey Philemon: Personally I'm much more interested in Antony and Cleopatra then Caesar and Cleopatra. Like Morgana, I find Actium and after to be absolutely fascinating.
22:28 Morgana Flavius: Also, Octavian never allowed a strong governor in Egypt. Everything had to be authorized by him. And that delayed everything in Egypt. It became a land where no one wanted to live anymore...
22:28 Torrey Philemon: I read somewhere that he killed Antyllus because Antyllus was a bigger threat than Cesarion. Rome was less likely to have a rebellion rallying under Cesarion an Egyptian than Antyllus, a Roman.
22:29 Torrey Philemon: See, he is a Bill Gates! And Egypt is Netscape! <-:
22:29 Morgana Flavius: Egypt, as a remarkable civilization, died with Cleopatra.
22:29 Mara Durotriges: Octavian took over Egypt as a sort of personal fiefdom.  One had to get permission to go there.  He called himself "King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Son of the Sun, Caesar, living forever, beloved of Ptah and Isis.  This seems to have been his way of getting Egyptians to accept him.  He made them feel as if they were still apart and an entity as always and not just merely vassals of Rome.  This is according to Weigall, again.  I hadn't noticed Octavian having this much diplomacy in him up to now.
22:30 Torrey Philemon: Just as Gates had to make sure that Netscape crashed so much that people would rally toward Internet Rome Explorer........<-:
22:30 Morgana Flavius: LOL Torrey!
22:31 Mara Durotriges: After his death, his son, Tiberius suceeded him to the thrones of Rome and Egypt
22:32 Mara Durotriges: After his death, his son, Tiberius suceeded him to the thrones of Rome and Egypt
22:32 Torrey Philemon: (I have to admit that I'm on my third whiskey sour, Morgana. I have discovered that online chats are a good excuse to have my occasional drink!)
22:32 Morgana Flavius: Ah, how interesting, Mara! But maybe exactly by making Egypt feeling a world apart, Octavian isolated it too much from the rest of the world. It seems that they shrank after Actium...
22:32 Mara Durotriges: sorry.  bad button.  Now I begin to see your Gates analogy, Torrey!
22:33 Torrey Philemon: Or maybe I've simply decided to playact Antony!
22:33 Morgana Flavius: (BTW, I'm still using Netscape!!)
22:33 Mara Durotriges: I find online chatting easier with a few beers - takes all the silly shyness away from me
22:33 Torrey Philemon: And some people don't think ancient history is relevant!
22:34 Mara Durotriges: good for you, Morgana!  immune to the Propaganda
22:35 Mara Durotriges: the eternal cycle cycles on - history is always relevant
22:35 Morgana Flavius: uh... Torrey... I think that after Actium, we, the members of the anti-Augustus society, Netscape users, Rome/corporate saboteurs, became orfans... who's our champion?!
22:35 Mara Durotriges: maybe Antony was really shy deep down inside?  nah...
22:35 Torrey Philemon: Here's another question. Cleopatra was going to burn the treasure so that Octavian didn't get it. But she didn't.  Why not? Did Octavian find her first?
22:36 Morgana Flavius: Yeah Mara... but guess what... I'm drinking Coke...!
22:36 Mara Durotriges: I don't care for Augustus, but I do like my Explorer, much as I hate to admit it
22:36 Torrey Philemon: (Good question, Morgana. Deserves some reflection.....We must start a new revolution perhaps)
22:37 Morgana Flavius: It seems Octavian got hold of her before she could burn the treasure, Torrey. And she delayed burning it because it was her only bargain with Octavian.
22:39 Mara Durotriges: she seems to me to have been in shock, so to speak, from watching Antony die and just hadn't made her move yet, when whatisname came in through the upstairs window.  Also, Antony told her she could trust Proculeius and I would imagine she was still trying to scheme some way out of all her troubles and to get those kids secured
22:39 Torrey Philemon: Now what really surprised me in Grant - and I don't agree with him here - is that Grant said that Octavian wanted Cleopatra to commit suicide! That he gave her considerable freedom so she would!
22:40 Morgana Flavius: Yes, that's right Mara. I think Cleo was in shock too.
22:40 Mara Durotriges: but didn't he say that if she killed herself he would kill her kids?  I think he really wanted to parade her in Rome in his Triumph.
22:40 Morgana Flavius: (at least I would be! I still am! -- I lost my champion!)
22:41 Mara Durotriges: I've read too many parts of too many versions - getting them confused
22:41 Torrey Philemon: Grant says (weak argument here) that Octavian probably figured that Cleopatra in chains in the triumph would evoke sympathy as Arsinoe would and that he wouldn't be popular if he killed her afterwards, since Romans didn't like executions of women. So the best option was for her to die without him being responsible for it. Therefore once he got his hands on the money and had what he wanted, he gave her considerable latitude so she'd take matters into her own hands. Also he leaked news of the triumph via Donabello so that she'd know the time for death had come, since obviously she wouldn't be willing to go through with this humiliation. Interesting perspective here, though I'm not sure I buy it.
22:42 Morgana Flavius: Yes, Torrey, that Grant's hypothesis seems to be a bit odd... Why would he want Cleo to commit suicide?
22:42 Mara Durotriges: but hadn't he poisoned Roman minds with all his tales of her wickedness and debauchery?
22:43 Torrey Philemon: Don't you think who he was really after though was Antony - not Cleopatra? He even tried to make a deal with her through a messenger -- he wanted the head of Antony!
22:44 Mara Durotriges: Though the leak of the triumphal march would have certainly spurred her to commit suicide - Octavian would have known she was too proud to go through that
22:45 Torrey Philemon: The question here then is - was Donatello or whatever his name was a friend trying to help her by providing real information, or was he a tool of Antony telling her of the Triumph so she would kill herself?
22:45 Morgana Flavius: Ah... but then he would let her die when she became sick. Much easier! Plus, the suicide (as opposed to a death by desease for instance) did make Cleopatra a martir, and a heroine, in some way. Way out of Octavian's propaganda schemes.
22:46 Torrey Philemon: And of course there's the question how she got the figs. Frankly I don't buy George's version of the story. After several days, would the snakes stil be under the figs? I would certainly think at this point they would be roaming around and not in the same place they were originally placed.
22:46 Mara Durotriges: I think he was really after Caesarion - there was always talk of another will, perhaps naming him as Caesar;s heir.  Octavian would have wanted to take no chance on that, if it had not ever been found.  Also a child of Caesar could have garnered a following, given luck and the right circumstances.  Many in Rome might have thought his a legitimate claim, down the road.
22:47 Morgana Flavius: No, I don't buy the suicide aided by Octavian hyppothesis.
22:47 Torrey Philemon: What do you think really happened, Morgana?
22:48 Mara Durotriges: But once Antony wrote the note offering himself up if Octavian would let Cleopatra live and that was refused, it would seem that Antony was not Octavian's true goal.
22:48 Torrey Philemon: What was Octavian's true goal anyway?
22:50 Morgana Flavius: I agree with you, Mara. Octavian was after Caesarion. But of course, Antony would have to go too. Cleopatra was only a conquered ruler that he would like to display in his triumph. But Antony and Caesarion had to be killed right away. And Octavian didn't bother that everyone knew he killed Caesarion, no need of suicide here... Plus, if he wanted Cleo dead, or commiting suicide, he could "allow" her to do so after the triumph. (In other words: kill her and make everyone believe she had killed herself, thus solving the after triumph problem)
22:51 Torrey Philemon: Good point, Morgana. He could easily have dispensed with her after the Triumph. But no way she would go through with that!!
22:51 Morgana Flavius: Hum... interesting question Mara. Why Octavian didn't take Antony's offer? Was the offer really made? Historian sources?
22:53 Mara Durotriges: No sources, just George's account
22:53 Morgana Flavius: Anyway, Octavian was kind to both Antony and Cleo after their death. He did give them a fine funeral and allowed them to rest together in the mausoleum. I wonder what had got into him by that time... maybe he was moved by the East after a few days in Alexandria...? (hum... doesn't look like him...)
22:53 Mara Durotriges: Also,Weigall says that Octavian had an executioner chop off Antyllus' head.This is different from George's account of Antyllus' death.  I really don't see the point of this - Antyllus was only left Roman estates - no real threat to Octavian - do you think?
22:54 Torrey Philemon: I think Octavian wanted to get rid of both Antony and Cleopatra. One wasn't enough. What I wonder though.....was this his aim from the start? Was the triumvirate a farce, just a means to the end of his ultimate power? Was he already seeking to conquer all?
22:54 Morgana Flavius: Back to the snakes, Torrey: George seem to know a lot about snakes and their habits. She has a snake as a pet! And apparently, the snakes were locked inside a box, not in a basket of figs. And yes, apparently they can live days, even weeks with no food.
22:55 Torrey Philemon: Morgana, do you think Octavian was really feeling kindly to Antony and Cleopatra after their deaths or that this was just another part of his propaganda image-making - that he wanted to be viewed as magananimous?
22:56 Torrey Philemon: Mara - the sources I read said that Antyllus was more a threat than Cesarion because he was a legitimate son of Antony and ROMAN. He could easily become the rallying focus of a revolution, whereas Cesarion being Egyptian would not have such influence.
22:56 Mara Durotriges: and in Olympus coda to Cleopatra's diaries, he says he went to Rome and her statue was atill in Caesar's temple
22:56 Mara Durotriges: Yes, Torrey, the Roman part would make sense
22:57 Morgana Flavius: I think Octavian became jealous of Antony after he realized that the lands in the East were the rich ones, while the West was not. And that happened when the Triumvirate had been already established for a while.
22:58 Torrey Philemon: Mara, I think you asked earlier if Olympos' diaries exist today. I don't  think they do. Have you found any information on them, Morgana?
22:59 Torrey Philemon: (I'm now making analogies in the U.S. between Rome/Egypt and white people and the native americans........)
22:59 Morgana Flavius: No, I haven't found anything about Olympus diaries either. And I'm interested too. But I think had they survived, George would have found them and put them in her notes, don't you think so?
22:59 Mara Durotriges: There was another question I had - The triumvirate expired at some point before Actium and Octavian became an ordinary private citizen.  So why was all this still being stirred about? 
22:59 Torrey Philemon: Question: Do you all feel sad? That Octavius prevailed? I feel very deeply sad........
23:00 Torrey Philemon: Mara, all this was probably stirred up because Octavian/Gates was very ambitious! <-:
23:00 Morgana Flavius: So many analogies can be made... again, again, and again... the relevance of history. :-)
23:01 Morgana Flavius: I feel sad, yes Torrey...
23:01 Mara Durotriges: I wonder if some other historian of the times has not made references to Olympus' diaries
23:02 Torrey Philemon: I did a search for Olympus (one issue is spelling, also Olympos) on the Net and didn't find much.....
23:02 Morgana Flavius: Octavian and Antony became private citizens after the Triumvirate. But they could run again for Consul, or whatever would be the most desired position. So Octavian had to crush Antony for good if he wanted to secure his election again.
23:03 Mara Durotriges: My other curiosity was about the 'silphion' that Olympus made for Cleopatra when she met with Caesar for the first time.  George also mentions it being used after the birth of Philadelphos.  I've looked up contraception in that period and have not come up with much.  What was in it?
23:04 Torrey Philemon: (Unfortunately the Octavian anti-Antony campaign reminds me too much of the nastiness between candidates in U.S. presidential elections)
23:04 Torrey Philemon: Yes, silphion interests me too. I did some research on that Mara and did find some information. I'll see if I can find it.
23:05 Mara Durotriges: Yes, Torrey, it does have a similarity - mud slinging
23:05 Morgana Flavius: I think Octavian was playing more on the political part of the game, rather than on the military. Let's not forget that Antony started to prepare to attack Octavian before Octavian was ready for a military campaign against Antony. Octavian did not have the money. I wonder if Octavian was relying so much on the power of his political schemes to provoke such a confrontation with an oponent so much stronger, militarywise.
23:06 Mara Durotriges: I personally would be much more swayed in an opinion by positive things about a person than negative
23:07 Torrey Philemon: Info on silphion here.....
23:07 Torrey Philemon:
23:07 Mara Durotriges: Octavian was much, much better in the political arena that Antony.  Antony seems to have been too trusting of people for politics.  Back to the childlikeness (is that a word?!)  of Antony
23:07 Torrey Philemon: References also here
23:08 Torrey Philemon:
23:08 Morgana Flavius: nastiness between candidates in elections is not a prerrogative of the US alone... it seems it is nasty all over the world. And has been so since ... Octavian! LOL!
23:10 Mara Durotriges: Thank you Torrey, I have marked it to read later.  Fennel?  I have some of that growing outside.  Too bad I don't need it anymore!
23:10 Morgana Flavius: That's true, Mara. Antony relied on other people instead of himself in order to counterbalance Octavian in Rome. Maybe that's a major political mistake.
23:10 Torrey Philemon: Antony was not very politically savvy. But that's part of why I like him and don't like Octavian. He seemed more like a real person, with real heart. Although he could be an actor, he was also very genuine.
23:11 Mara Durotriges: another 'father of', Morgana - father of mudslinging!
23:12 Morgana Flavius: Exactly, Mara! LOL!
23:12 Torrey Philemon: It's hard to believe that Antony could have had much influencein Rome when he was away for so long. I mean, after all they didn't have the Internet or cable tv. <-:
23:13 Torrey Philemon: And some of the statements Antony sent to Rome were not read aloud in the Senate. Some of his triumphant battles weren't even reported, or barely anyway.
23:14 Morgana Flavius: I agree, Torrey. Antony did seem to be a real person, with a real heart. Although, as I have mentioned before, I'm not particularly attracted by the histrionic aspect of his personality. People who like to act and make big performances out of their otherwise simple actions do not appeal to me at all.
23:15 Mara Durotriges: Another question.  Why DId he let Mardian live?  And Olympos, for that matter.  I would think Octavian woould have perceived them as definitely against him
23:15 Torrey Philemon: And he let A&C's children live too!
23:16 Mara Durotriges: and, Torrey, the part where Antony tried to speak, somewhere, I forget where, and the trumpets were blown over top of him so that he could not be heard.  How demoralizing for him.  That would certainly crush me
23:17 Morgana Flavius: I think Antony could (and when he was in Rome he did) have influenced people if he was there. Actually, it would be interesting to see who would win in such a political war: the hypocritical Octavian or the more genuine Antony?
23:17 Torrey Philemon: I do actually get the impression that there was a very small bit of softness within Octavian's cold personality....he was not always ruthless. But how much was real and how much for the sake of his image? (Perhaps he did not wish to alienate Egypt further.....he wished to have Egypt a cooperative rather than revolutionary part of the Roman empirre)
23:18 Torrey Philemon: Too bad Antony stayed away from Rome so long. He might have done better if he was there longer.
23:19 Mara Durotriges: yes, Morgana, Antony could have influenced things by his presence.  But where would Cleopatra have been?  Could she have tried Rome again as she did with Caesar?
23:19 Morgana Flavius: Yes, Antony did have personal magnetism. Maybe much more than Octavian! I think that while Antony would gather people around him to support him based on positive things, Octavian would have to find someone else to throw his negative propaganda onto.
23:20 Torrey Philemon: Interesting, Mara. Cleopatra left Egypt to stay in Rome while Caesar ruled. But under Antony, she let Antony come to her.
23:20 Mara Durotriges: and do either of you see any similarities in Caesar's plans for an Egypt/Rome alliance and what Cleopatra was trying to accomplish with Antony? 
23:22 Morgana Flavius: Well, I think that had Antony chosen to fight Octavian in Rome, through politics, Octavian would not go for it. Octavian would try to bring Antony to his cause. And maybe that's what Cleopatra feared. That's why she insisted on Antony staying in Egypt and not going to Rome. She knew that Antony might have surrender to Octavian's promises.
23:23 Mara Durotriges: or as the seer said - when Antony was around Octavian, he would always be eclipsed
23:24 Morgana Flavius: And maybe, exactly because of her previous experience with Caesar in Rome, Cleo knew that her charms did not work so well in the West as they did in the East. :-)
23:26 Mara Durotriges: especially now, after Octavian had spread his version of things.  When Caesar had her in Rome, she was more of an exotic spectacle, I think
23:26 Morgana Flavius: Are we saying that Antony & Octavian would be a winning pair, while Antony & Cleopatra would be a losing one? I call that extremely politically incorrect and a sexist vision. LOL!!!!
23:27 Mara Durotriges: curiosity, rather than spectacle, was the word I was looking for
23:28 Morgana Flavius: Right, Mara. In Rome, Cleopatra was just an exotic woman. In Egypt, she was a queen and a goddess!
23:28 Torrey Philemon: (Sorry folks I just got a long distance phone call on the other phone line. Am catching up with what you wrote now)
23:28 Mara Durotriges: Cleopatra wouldn't have put up with Octavian for 5 minutes.  Though their combined cunning might have been very interesting
23:29 Morgana Flavius: (Torrey! Are you there? How many glasses of whiskey have you already have?)
23:30 Torrey Philemon: It would be interesting to imagine how Cleopatra and Octavian would have oil and water......
23:30 Mara Durotriges: another unsourced sentence - I saw something speculating on Cleopatra and Sextus - remember him?  She had a fondness for his father, Pompey.  Had things turned out differently...
23:31 Torrey Philemon: I find myself wondering....what would the western world be like today if Antony and Cleopatra had won!
23:31 Morgana Flavius: Maybe Octavian had a secret crush on Cleo? After all, he married a woman who was very powerful too and stayed with her for many, many years, until he died.
23:32 Torrey Philemon: It intrigues me that he wrote her, basically, "bring me the head of antony." He wanted Antony dead more than her.........
23:32 Mara Durotriges: Torrey's putting herself in Antony's space perhaps  ':)
23:33 Torrey Philemon: Actually she was one hell of a woman! What other women do we know from ancient times who was so intelligent, educated, powerful, politically astute, passionately alive! She is really very impressive......and obviously stronger than Antony!
23:33 Morgana Flavius: Sextus? No, it was Gnaeus Pompeyus, the oldest son of Pompey the Great, that was suspected of having catch Cleo's fondness.
23:33 Mara Durotriges: George has Olympos speculate on the state of things had Caesarion lived.
23:33 Torrey Philemon: Torrey's whiskey drinking (no more than once a week, fortunately) is helping her identify with Antony!
23:34 Mara Durotriges: She is especially impressive given the usual place of women in that age. 
23:35 Torrey Philemon: Several interesting events.....the organization he formed to celebrate? death.............also Dionysius/his god leaving him during the night......
23:35 Morgana Flavius: Yes, I am very fond of Cleopatra now. Despite of her final loss, what she achieved and the richness of her life really wonders me. What a woman!
23:35 Mara Durotriges: I also found the afterword in Olympos' diary entry about the Kandake interesting.  Was she real?  any source on her?
23:36 Torrey Philemon: Yes, the Kandake is fascinating. I agree. I found just a very little bit of information somewhere but not much. Will look.
23:37 Mara Durotriges: perhaps the God leaving Antony was symbolic of his knowing, consciously or not, that his time was done.  A giving up maybe
23:37 Morgana Flavius: The Kandake of Meroe seemed to have been equally impressive. Although, ruling over a less powerful country.
23:38 Torrey Philemon: Ancient Sudan: Kingdom of Kush at Meroe .......      At MeroŽ the kandake system of government made the Queen Mother the central  political figure, and the queens were either the principal ruler or at least equal to their husbands as co-ruler. Behind the thrones are the protecting wings of the standing goddess Isis. "
23:38 Mara Durotriges: and maybe the 'death dinner' was more of an acceptance of what he thought was to come - a product of the time he spent alone after Actium.  Sort of like the Hospice people do in the US for terminal patients - getting them to accept death
23:39 Morgana Flavius: Yes... all of that is veyr symbolic and beautiful. Although I have liked the Shakespeare movie Antony & Cleopatra, with Janet Suzman, and specially the actor who played Antony (I always forget his name), that part of Antony was not focused there. It was a beautiful revelation to me. Those final days, after he had lost in Actium.
23:40 Mara Durotriges: Torrey, you are the queen of web links!  I shall enjoy these tomorrow.  Thank you.
23:41 Torrey Philemon: The queen of Meroe at this time or just before this time may have been Amanarenas. There is an image of her here   Note that she is NOT heavy.
23:41 Morgana Flavius: I think George did a wonderful work when she presented us with Antony's (and Cleo too) final days.
23:42 Torrey Philemon: Mara, did you see the 1974 Antony and Cleopatra with Janet Suzman? It's magnificent. I notice it' s on sale at Ebay now, really cheap. A much better Antony than Richard Burton.
23:44 Morgana Flavius: "Queen Candace" is well known character in history. It was the Kandake (in Greek) that sacked many Roman strongholds in southern Egypt (Philae among them). Strabo wrote about this queen.
23:45 Mara Durotriges: I have to tell you that I haven't seen much of anything.  There are so many things I want to do that something has to be left out.  I choose TV and movies.  If things are really old, though, I may have seen it, though not what you just mentioned
23:46 Morgana Flavius: Both Cleopatra and Antony are excellent performances in the 1974 Cleo & Antony movie, Mara! If you have any chance, see it! :-)
23:47 Mara Durotriges: I'm saving movies till I get some terrible disease of my old age.  Then I'll catch up.LOL!
23:47 Morgana Flavius: Ladies, it's way past midnight here. And I have a busy day tomorrow. I will go back to some of Torrey's posts, in the Memoirs board. I just had time to read them today. And I will post my replies to that e-mail too, Torrey.
23:48 Mara Durotriges: I have to agree.  I'm getting tired and I don't want to lose tomorrow.
23:48 Morgana Flavius: Yes, they are more or less the same, Mara.

23:49 Torrey Philemon: I'll look forward to your replies, Morgana! And I"m so glad you joined us Mara. Morgana and I always have stimulating conversations, but you really added a lot, Mara!
23:49 Mara Durotriges: I have enjoyed this - where will you be posting about the Augustus book?  Fab Bib or Women, where Cleo was?
23:49 Torrey Philemon: It's been a great conversation. Thanks to both of you.
23:50 Mara Durotriges enters...
23:50 Torrey Philemon: Don't know where we'll post about Augustus yet, but we'll announce it. It probably doesn't belong on the Women's board, but maybe somewhere else in Rome.
23:50 Mara Durotriges: Thank you for including me, and good night!
23:50 Mara Durotriges: Send me a message then.
23:50 Mara Durotriges exits...
23:50 Torrey Philemon: (Frankly I'd prefer to continue talking about Cleopatra for at least another month......and next, to do Plutarch's Life of Antony, which is short)
23:51 Morgana Flavius: It's been really, really great, yes!
23:51 Torrey Philemon: Goodnight, Morgana. As always, I deeply value your contributions!
23:52 Morgana Flavius: Oh, Mara left... But she had a good question: where will we be posting from now on?
23:52 Morgana Flavius: I still want to do Plutarch too, Torrey. Do you think we can still use the Memoirs board, since it is related to the subject?
23:53 Torrey Philemon: Yes, I think the Memoirs board is fine for Life of Antony.
23:54 Torrey Philemon: (And I'm going to see if I can get that H-Hallett bio to you first class, Morgana. I'm only half through it. It is so RICH it deserves to be savored, like an Egyptian banquet! <-:
23:55 Morgana Flavius: Yes, the title seems to hold a promise of a fascinating book by H.H.!
23:56 Torrey Philemon: Goodnight! And may your pearls of wisdom not be dissolved in vinegar <-:
23:57 Morgana Flavius: Yes, the title seems to hold a promise of a fascinating book by H.H.!
00:00 Morgana Flavius: Thanks! Yours too! Good night!

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